Advaita Post 10-10 - It’s about the independence of the student...

Volume 10 No 10 (June 18, 2009)

--- It’s about the independence of the student. The sooner that autonomy develops, the better ---

Good paths dissolve themselves into openness.

The relationship between teacher and pupil

Interview with Douwe Tiemersma - by Pia de Blok

In: Inzicht 11 n.2 (May 2009), p. 24-26

The September issue of Inzicht last year had the theme of sexuality and relationships, which included an interview with Douwe Tiemersma where that theme was discussed extensively. A section of that original interview revolved around the special relationship between teacher and pupil. That part was not placed into the article due to the surrounding context, but fits perfectly into the theme of this Inzicht issue on Satsang.

On the I-level there is a general alignment towards the other. The authentic teacher is Openness. If people don’t understand the teacher, or even feel themselves attacked, they sometimes say: "That teacher doesn’t speak to me."

From out of the openness, there is no teacher, no person who is in tune with someone else. In real openness there is a universal alignment, if you want to use that word. So the 'teacher' is open and does nothing. The student feels affected somehow; 'the teacher' does nothing. Another student also feels affected, but in a totally different way; 'the teacher' does nothing. This comes from being open with a universal alignment. Through this, people learn what they need from the teacher. With everyone that something is different.

People can say, "That’s not a good teacher because he doesn’t understand me."

That can be. Then that is a situation in which the student no longer finds the relationship liberating. Let’s assume that a teacher is authentic, that he is totally open. When the student says: "That teacher is not suitable for me", then you must look to the student for the cause. Apparently he did not open himself up to that great space in which things can happen that are necessary for him. That was very strong with Nisargadatta Maharaj. All sorts of people came to him and said: "Oh, this is not a real teacher, he doesn’t understand me" and went away. But if they had been more open, they would have noticed that they had to give up their own defenses and that then the realization would continue.

Liberating insight and surrender

A teacher who isn't completely open can also say this.

That's true. Seekers thus need to be very clear and must stay within their own highest sense of openness. Then there will come an understanding that that particular teacher is not the teacher. Then they will need to face the implications of this understanding. Everything seems fine by itself as long as there is clarity.

Also in a positive situation, the highest sense is crucial, even though the seeker’s understanding is not yet completely correct. The insight goes in the right direction. He can recognize something in the teacher through which that insight becomes confirmed. He can discover in the teacher an even wider sphere which makes his own highest aspirations completely clear. That is the basis upon which the seeker’s resistance and self defense mechanisms can release.

Remaining clear is then the most important.

Absolutely. Through it comes surrender to the lucidity.

Is a teacher-student relationship always necessary?

For most people being stuck on the level of the individual I-person it's a very persistent condition. The problem of desire for unity and the maintenance of separation coexist. It’s then a question of whether the liberating insight and surrender can easily breakthrough. At this point you see the role of the teacher. For so long as the student experiences something of the unlimited nature of the teacher, then it’s the basis upon which he can surrender his old position. Then there is a trust in and a devotion in the open sphere of the teacher, who also becomes his own open space. In practice you see retrospectively that this relationship is almost always necessary for the ultimate surrender.

Are there names that can be mentioned of earlier teachers who didn't need a teacher?

Ramana Maharshi to be sure had no clear teacher, but he was in an atmosphere of living spirituality. In very few you see that there was never a clear teacher-student relationship.

Some people think: "I know it now" and don't go to a teacher any more, yet they haven't really experienced the final realization.

Apparently the time isn't ripe for a real breakthrough. The limited and problematic situation continues to persist. Hopefully for them not for very long. You can see it nowadays in people who are giving satsang, that they miss the radicality of surrender that they had could have learned with an authentic teacher.

What is the value now of the advaita tradition?

To the extent that you experience the value of the teacher, you experience the value of the tradition in which he stands. The advaita tradition goes back to the earliest times. There continue to be apparent breakthroughs in students who then become teachers and who then receive students themselves. There is a continuous line from the oldest times up to the present. Someone who knows himself to be received therein is unbelievably grateful for it.

Liberating realizations

Should you not be careful with 'the tradition'?

You don't need to make the tradition so important. It's only through the perspective of time that there is a tradition. The beauty of the advaita approach is that it transcends every culture and every tradition. The cultural separations of men and women and of the castes in India, for example, are rejected by the real advaita teachers. There is no institute of an advaita-'church ', of a priest or monk class and of a "lineage" that must be continued. There are only the four Shankarâchârya's with their monks, which were established in the past under the influence of Buddhism. They have only a limited meaning in the advaita tradition. Somewhere in time and space, advaita teachers just arise, without a clear cause. They offer an ageless teaching, because there are people who come that ask for it. After their death there is nothing left of them where they taught, but once again in a different location another teacher emerges. Thus, the liberating realizations continue.

The ability of the teacher to see through the student seems very important to me. Previously you had the master's favorite in the class who was actually a smartass, but the master did not see it. The master only saw the beautiful side. Do you see the other side too?

The limitations of people are so clear, even in people who put their best foot forward. Then there is still something artificial. Usually very little happens from the teacher's side, because that's how the situation is now, except for that moment when it makes sense to pierce the bubble. It's frequently more useful to encourage the positive that is already present in the experience of others in order to strengthen it. Look, there's someone there with different aspects. There can be an attack on the less attractive aspects, so that the other might possibly see what he is not. It's simply often more obvious to strengthen the positive, the insight into what he really is. From there, the other can consciously look back onto the less beautiful aspects. Then you hear them say to themselves: "That was really ridiculous."

Sometimes that can take a long time.

Yes, that's true. But the other must also be ripe for it to go into a hard confrontation. Still, the hard confrontation comes by itself anyway, without having a teacher specifically focusing upon it. Because the other feels the penetrating awareness of the teacher and it creates an uncomfortable feeling wherever anything remains tightly grasped. A teacher does nothing, even when speaking. The effect is automatic.

Love and dependence

As a teacher you are open. When, in the relationship with the teacher, the pupil comes into that openness, he comes near to Light and Silence, also love can emerge. For the student who then shoots back into duality that can cause dependency and suffering. How do you handle that?

I don't do anything. The love is understandable. As the student comes closer to the openness of the teacher, and so experiences more unity with the teacher, there is a great intimacy. This is easily translated by the ego on the level of romantic love and eroticism. The duality that it contains will lead to suffering, if the insight doesn't go further. The non-dual open oneness of the teacher goes beyond romantic love and other dualistic situations. The idea is for the student to realize it also. Being in love is dependency and this dependency should come into the light and resolve in the clear openness.

Also apart from being in love there certainly exists dependency, if the student continues to think: "I don't know it but he does." This dependence can last for a long time. At some point, a father and mother have to let a child go, if they are to achieve independence. I saw that in our garden when a titmouse would no longer give food to her young. Then they had to exit the nest.

It happens as it happens. A 'teacher' is not dependent on 'students'. From the side of the teacher at the appropriate moment there will be something that breaks through the dependency. It's about the independence of the student. The sooner that autonomy develops the better. A period in which someone thinks it's necessary to have someone else, can be useful, but should be as short as possible.

Do you think the teacher-student relationship can be changed by the Internet? Will there never be a virtual Douwe?

An internet-satsang? This nonsense of advaita-chatting? Of course, images and texts can have an effect. They can be effective, in the sensitive world of imagination. How far does that go? Yes, we can only wait and see. If you see the effect of the image of Jesus on Christian mystics, you see that 'belief' can have a great effect. For the time being it seems that direct contact with a living teacher contains the greatest possibilities. There is not much more to say. Questions about a possible future make little sense. It's about your own situation - now.

Er is geen tweeheid

als je ontspannen bent
in zelf-bewustzijn
is dat duidelijk.


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